Back in 1983, President Walter Smith defended FAMU against a merger bill introduced by State Rep. T.K. Wetherell (D-Allandale).
The two men debated the issue at the Tallahassee Tiger Bay Club.
T.K. said race had nothing to do with his bill and used language very similar to those who currently claim that America is a “post-racial” nation.
“I don’t believe it is a racial issue,” T.K. told the crowd. “I believe we are beyond that.”
He said that having FAMU and FSU operating side-by-side “ain’t the most efficient way to run the system in Tallahassee.”
In 2007, T.K. used another “efficiency” argument when he tried to help FSU get 100 percent control of the joint College of Engineering it runs with FAMU. He said FSU would be better at managing the money. T.K. conveniently ignored the fact that FAMU had 24 years of clean financial statement audits until trustees and administrators supported by then-Gov. Jeb Bush wrecked the day-to-day financial operations.
Smith said that the merger was an attack on FAMU’s proud heritage and continuing value.
“It’s necessary to realize that the culture and history of black people are as important as the culture and history of any other people in this state,” Smith told the audience.
He also stated that: “It is foolhardy to toy with the institution in this state that does the best job of producing black leaders and education black boys and girls.”
Smith pointed out that FAMU ranked third in America in preparing blacks for doctorates.
Currently, FAMU tops all American public universities in producing black undergraduates who go on to earn Ph.D.s.
T.K.’s 1983 effort to merge FAMU and FSU fell flat, just like his recent attempts to take over the E-College.
Read the full article here.
The two men debated the issue at the Tallahassee Tiger Bay Club.
T.K. said race had nothing to do with his bill and used language very similar to those who currently claim that America is a “post-racial” nation.
“I don’t believe it is a racial issue,” T.K. told the crowd. “I believe we are beyond that.”
He said that having FAMU and FSU operating side-by-side “ain’t the most efficient way to run the system in Tallahassee.”
In 2007, T.K. used another “efficiency” argument when he tried to help FSU get 100 percent control of the joint College of Engineering it runs with FAMU. He said FSU would be better at managing the money. T.K. conveniently ignored the fact that FAMU had 24 years of clean financial statement audits until trustees and administrators supported by then-Gov. Jeb Bush wrecked the day-to-day financial operations.Smith said that the merger was an attack on FAMU’s proud heritage and continuing value.
“It’s necessary to realize that the culture and history of black people are as important as the culture and history of any other people in this state,” Smith told the audience.
He also stated that: “It is foolhardy to toy with the institution in this state that does the best job of producing black leaders and education black boys and girls.”
Smith pointed out that FAMU ranked third in America in preparing blacks for doctorates.
Currently, FAMU tops all American public universities in producing black undergraduates who go on to earn Ph.D.s.
T.K.’s 1983 effort to merge FAMU and FSU fell flat, just like his recent attempts to take over the E-College.
Read the full article here.
Pictured: Students outside Jackson-Davis Hall in the 1980s.
Great article. 27 years later and nothing really has changed, including some of the faces.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit there is some merit to the efficiency argument as both schools offer many of the same majors, but I think we all know what would happen to the number black students in college with just a larger FSU and no FAMU.
After the current negro students graduated and got out of the system, FSU would return to being 10% black. With a 40,000 student enrollment, that's 4000 blacks. As opposed to the 11,000 blacks at FAMU and 3000 blacks at FSU right now.
4,000 black students at FSU ain't 11,000 blacks at FAMU any way you slice it.
8:21 Interesting comment. To maintain the number of black grads that the two separate schools produce, FSU would have to become 30% Black. If you believe in "tipping points", you would believe that at that point, fewer white students would apply to FSU. Fsu, then, to keep enrollment numbers up would recruit more Latinos and become increasing less white. The result would be a university that would likely be 40%, 30%, 30% with either whites or Latinos making up the 40%.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting student population, but probably unacceptable to FSU alums.
I think the next time this subject comes us, we agree with stipulations. The stipulations are that Fthe combined university must enroll and graduate black students at the projected rate of the of FSU and FAMU combined. The other stipulation is that the new combined university 's total student body will not exceed 50,000 students. Finally, the combined university will not have satellite campuses. This last stipulation prevents FSU from housing all the black students at FSU-Ocala.
ReplyDeleteNot only would their be fewer black students graduating from the merged institution but we would have fewer black $205K CFO's, $215K CIO's, and $225K Provosts, not to mention the reduction of the African American middle class in Tallahassee by over 25% when their positions were eliminated by the new efficiency. There would also be no home for FAMU faculty at the merged institution and no tenure for those who do not perform competitive research. The athletic department could kiss their ass good-by at a merged institution. This would be the end of life as we know it in Tallahassee.
ReplyDeleteOn the positive side those staff which survive the merger would get paid on time. Faculty would only be required to teach 12 hrs instead of 15 hrs. Financial aid, for those who qualify would be awarded on time, students would have dorm rooms which at least date from the 90's. Athletes would have a real shot at professional sports if they could get into the school. The salary differential(FAMU penalty) between faculty in the College of Engineering would disappear.
You might lose the 11,000 total enrollment but the differences between the number of black students which actually graduate from college might be the same.
The new "merged" school would no longer be the top public producer of blacks who go on to earn PhDs. Right now, FSU's total in that area is only 1/3 of FAMU's.
ReplyDeleteYou could bet that the pharmacy school would no longer graduate over 20% of African American pharmacists. A professional school like that one with limited seats would loss its minority access mission.
The Graduate Feeder Program and Industry Cluster, which draw schools and companies looking increase their diversity by attracting African Americans, would melt away. The current members would just stick with Howard, Spelman, Morehouse, etc.
FSU would love getting the "land grant" status that would come along with FAMU. That would open up new federal funding opportunities for them.
"BCU four year graduation rate increses to 44%"
ReplyDeleteThose titles go to the schools which actually graduate black students which then attend graduate schools, and professional schools.
ReplyDeleteI would assert the reason why the FAMU school of Pharmacy is so successful is because it has the highest academic requirements and only admits the most academically qualified students. The same applies to Howard Morehouse and Spelman they have academic standards for students which make them attractive to potential employers graduate and professional schools.
The greatest risk of a merged university would be to the academically unprepared student which would not meet the entrance requirements of the merged institution. However for the prepared student there would be additional opportunities in medicine science, film school, performing arts, and other fields which are not offered at FAMU.
A defense against the so called efficiency argument is to invest in student success and FAMU is an institution which put teaching and student success at the front of their mission. However this is a high cost approach because the academically unprepared student is the most expensive to educate. They will need tutors, remedial classes, more time to graduation etc. An +3.0 student costs less to educate and has a higher probability of graduating in 4 years.
What an interesting and fruitful discussion!
ReplyDelete"An +3.0 student costs less to educate and has a higher probability of graduating in 4 years."
ReplyDeleteThat's very true. Plus, those +3.0 students usually come from well-funded school districts and families that can afford to contribute more to the cost of their education.
But the problem is, a state and national economy can't simply survive on the +3.0 students. Today's jobs require college-level skills. That's where schools like FAMU come in. FAMU gives a hand-up to those who don't have the benefit of wealthy families or rich school districts.
But in order to fulfill that mission, the state needs to make a better investment in FAMU. There are too many who only want to reward the most selective schools, which already have lower-cost students.
"But the problem is, a state and national economy can't simply survive on the +3.0 students. Today's jobs require college-level skills."
ReplyDeleteThis is based on the assumption there is in some sense a shortage of +3.0 students to enter the SUS and sustain the state economy. I would assert that there is no shortage once you take immigration into account. Because if the pool of talent is open to the entire world there are more than enough +3.0 students to fill all of the university seats in the US much less Florida. Also this talent is inexpensive to educate and eager to fill entry level positions at lower wages than US citizens.
"That's where schools like FAMU come in. FAMU gives a hand-up to those who don't have the benefit of wealthy families or rich school districts."
The above implies that the state of Florida has an obligation to remunerate the "victims" of poor school districts ( from which they didn't earn a +3.0) by supporting the victims high cost, high risk education (graduation rate of 34%) for up to 6 years. I argee that might be a role for FAMU but I doubt that the state of Florida would acknowledge it.
Even if one comes from a poor school district to benefit from higher education requires some display of academic achievement either through GPA or test scores. Admission to a university requires some form of academic achievement just as making the football team requires some form of athletic achievement. This is true even if you come from a underfunded school district.
"There are too many who only want to reward the most selective schools, which already have lower-cost students."
The only ones who are willing to support +2.0 students are the state of Florida and the federal government. If you look at the funds contributed to FAMU for scholarships by companies and individuals all of them require at least a 3.0 or far better. That is why the victim argument fails. That is why the stadium is empty when the home team is losing.
The GPA and time to graduation is the standard by which an potential employer determine if you have mastered the "skills" of higher education.
Wow!
ReplyDeleteI am really enjoying this discussion!
I agree with 8:29 p.m. & 10:41 p.m.
FAMU is not fulfilling it's mission. FAMU could do a much better job in preparing underprepared students with programs like medical schools Post-Bac initiatives!
Students HAVE to take responsibility when given the opportunity and FAMU and ALL of US should hold them accountable!
I would be in favor of a merger as long as the name is FAMU, the president is Dr. James Ammons, the mascot is the Rattler, the colors are orange & green, all department chairpersons are black or non white, all employees have to reapply for their jobs, and will be selected by a committee made up of Dr. Humphries, Bill Proctor, Walter Smith, Rudy Hubbard, Dr. Henry Lewis, Dr. Larry Rivers, Alcee Hastings, and former seminole Lavernous Coles.
ReplyDeleteLet the talks begin.
I've always been of the opinion that T. K. Wetherell was a racist redneck. Look at him!! I wouldn't trust that slick lowdown rat for nothing in the world.
"Because if the pool of talent is open to the entire world there are more than enough +3.0 students to fill all of the university seats in the US much less Florida."
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that the state limits the number of out-of-state students that public universities can enroll.
Hopefully that policy will change in the future (especially with the state slashing millions from the budget each year). But right now, FAMU can't rely on +3.0 students to get the numbers it needs for its state-mandated enrollment.
That means FAMU needs to try and lobby the legislature to make its funding reflect the more expensive costs of educating lower income students with GPAs that are less than 3.0.
We need to lay this merger crap to rest. People don't take too kindly to the threat of being exterminated. I intend for my unborn grandkids to attend FAMU. Any threat or harm to FAMU by any cold hearted, blood sucking racist politician or rogue college president is unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteFAMU is important. It is a place where people who aren't "college material" can have a shot at getting a college degree. I think it is ok to have a low admission standards, high academic standards, and low graduation rates. Anyone can come, but not all can finish. Its like a marathon. Anyone can enter, but few can finish the race.
ReplyDeleteThose that do not finish are still enriched by the experience.
What a great discourse here! First time in a long time, I think. I had stopped visiting the site, because of all of the negative comments and the silliness and name-calling and gossiping. The comments on this current topic are what, I believe, the overall objective of the site was meant to be. Good job, posters! (Heck, I might start visiting and commenting again.)
ReplyDeleteWhats wrong with merging the two schools, just name it FAMU have the school colors as orange and green and make sure everyone knows its an HBCU. See problem solved.
ReplyDelete