This week's against the grain column by Roosevelt Wilson discusses the flawed "Pappas Report". The Pappas report as you is know, is lazy research by a consulting group that concludes turning six of universities in the SUS into undergraduate centered universities would solve all of Florida's ills.
Mr. Wilson takes a hard and critical look at the report, which we believe is worth take a look at.
Wilson writes, "A study commissioned by the Florida Board of Governors recommends turning back the clock more than half a century and essentially stripping Florida A&M University, the state’s only historically black public university, of its graduate programs.
Although a few of FAMU’s sister institutions in the 11-member State University System also are recommended to be downgraded, the fact that FAMU was included shows a troubling disregard for or lack of appreciation of FAMU’s special mission.
Some opponents of the downgrading of FAMU are objecting on principle and the fact that to do so would be counter to the university’s mission."
continue reading: Take downgrading FAMU off the table
The reality is that the Pappas report is based on the California System of public higher education which is thought to be one of the best in the country. This system has three tiers--University of CA system which consists of Berkeley, San Francisco, UCLA, UCSan Diego and six others. These institutions focus on graudate education, law school, and medical school with minimum undergraduate emphasis. The undergraduate education is focused on the top 10% graduating high school seniors. 240,000 students are part of this system
ReplyDeleteThe second tier is the California State Schools where there are 23 universities, which include San Francisco State University, San Diego State University and others. This part of the system educates just under 500,000 students and focuses primarily on undergraduate education. However, some of the schoold do have some graduate programs. To enter one of these schools a student is expected to be in the top 1/3 of his graduating class.
The third tier is the community college system. The remainder of the students are steered here and slots are made available to both of the above systems for community college systems to transfer.
California created this system about 30-40 years ago and it has been quite successful. Also since CA has the largest population in the union and Florida is also one of the largest, that is why this was considered.
I personally don't believe it is a bad thing to do. Because FAMU has a unique mission, our strategy should be to lobby for the tier that made since. We could fall in either the first or second tier and we should decide how man y graduate programs we should establish. We will never be the flagsship of the system and have all of the offerings of UF and now USF. However, we certainly could be more like a San Diego State University which has its focus undergraduate education and some offerings of graduate school as well.
I do not think the plan to revamp the system will go away. FAMU needs to determine how many and which graduate programs make sense for its mission and negotiate. FAMU has a better opportunity to do this than UNF and UWF, New College and FAU.
In conclusion, the Pappas Report is not a bad thing; we just need to negotiate where and how we want to fit.
^^^^5/30/2007 8:49 AM
ReplyDeleteYou sound completely ridiculus. For you to say, and I quote,
"We will never be the flagsship of the system and have all of the offerings of UF and now USF" sounds just as bad as what all the rest of the hypocrits and non believers of this institution have to say.
FAMU is just as great as any other institution of higher learning. We may have our current problems but don't downgrade the academia because of what some report says. I received a great education from FAMU and I wouldn't trade it for any other schools diploma. I'm quite appalled and offended by the thought and mention of FAMU resorting to just an undergraduate University, but hey anything negative that is said about FAMU is appalling to me. Sorry, but I'm a die hard rattler and FAMU shouldn't compromise its mission because of some Pappas report and many short digressive minded individuals.
8:49 am,
ReplyDeletetake a look at the University of North Carolina System. Another system thought to be one of the best in the country and it bears no resemblance to the CA System.
Florida residents need greater access to graduate and professional programs, not less.
AFRICAN AMERICANS need educational opportunities that is accessible at all levels. We already know that our kids are starting behind because many are in school that are not adequately funded or functioning ... separate and unequal.
ReplyDeleteOur students already receive a "downgraded education." Its just time to admit it.
ReplyDeleteI have taught at FSU, FAMU, and TCC. I taught the same class and gave the same test at each institution.
If I held the FAMU students to the same standards I maintained at the other two schools, I would fail about 80% of my class. I cut out about a third of the material and I still have only about 30% of the class that legitimately passes. Of course I curve.
Our mission is not to be the flagship school of higher education in Florida. We cannot attract the faculty or students for that.
ReplyDeleteOur mission is to provide an educational opportunity for those who have been overlooked or left behind.
Our mission is to provide opportunity to those students that couldn't make it in a traditional university.
Our mission is to prepare children/students to compete with those children who had a better start in life than they did.
Hasn't that been the mission of the HBCU from its inception?
What do you think about that?
Some of you folks on here are funny individuals. I must laugh at you because you're absolutely funny! Def Comedy Jam at its best.
ReplyDelete5/30/2007 8:49 AM you upset me greatly this afternoon. So who willdo the researchand study on blacks with this train of thought? who will look out for us if we dont look out for ourselves? this is just a tool to strip us of our mba pharm d and other assorted Phd programs. please get real! FAMU still has a mission to fufill.
ReplyDeleteAs long as famu continues to pay me my check, I don't care what tier it's in. Now, how about that??!!
ReplyDelete9:38 AM... walk across the tracks... to FSU. You will find people of all colors and nationalities. Americans and internationals of all types and shades are well represented.
ReplyDeleteYour statement that some subset of Americans do not have equal opportunity is demonstratably false.
FAMU's historical mission is to educate those who do not have opportunity to go to the traditional schools. Today the only kids that do not have opportunity are the ones that do poorly in high school.
In continuation of our historical mission, we should welcome the kids that the other schools consider "unacceptable" and maybe we can find some diamonds in the rough that can go on to do great things with their life and for society.
None of this is about you. Remove yourself from the situationa and help or allow FAMU to do its best.
ReplyDeleteI think that the proposal was to avoid having all universities take the path of doctoral-intensive research universities. Universities like FAMU can and should offer professional degrees in fields like Phamarcy, law, and business. However, I see no reason for the state to invest any additional resources for Ph.D. programs at FAMU when there are stronger and more ciompwetitve Ph.D. programs at FSU and other universities in the system which produce MORE black Ph.D.'s than FAMU does. It make no sense for every university in the state to attemnpt to be a comprehensive Ph.D. granting institution. Again, this does not effect MBA. J.D.s and phamarcy degrees -- only Ph.D.'s.
ReplyDelete5/31/2007 10:54 AM
ReplyDeleteAnd you sound just as idiotic as the rest of these fools that attempt to downgrade FAMU. Take your ass back on the other side of the tracks with that foolishness.
I think you are misinterpreting my statements. The reality is that every state has a flagship institution that has just about every major and professional schools. States cannot afford to put these majors at every institution. That is what I mean that FAMU will not be like UF and USF. The state will not fund the multitude of majors at our school. I was not referencing the quality of education offered.
ReplyDeleteNext point, FAMU should be the think tank for African Americans; however we should decide which areas to specialize in. We do not need nor do we have the capacity to to offer 100-200 PhD programs. It may make sense to offer 20 PhDs in areas that are critical need to African-Americans.
In regards to the UNC system it also has tiered colleges. The flagship institution is Chapel Hill. North Carolina State is a good school but does not have a medical school and some of the offerings of Chapel Hill. You then after Chapel Hill and NCSU have the various black colleges, UNC Greensboro, Appalachian State University, etc. None of these other schools reach the caliber of the first two named. All states have flagships and then the others. So there system is not that different than CA which is truly structured and defined.
I believe the mission should be clear and that is our emphasis should be undergraduate education with some graduate programs. Real research institutions really do not put their emphasis on undergraduate education. They are more concerned about grant dollars and conducting research and publishing. At these major research institutions, undergraduate students are rarely taught by professors, but by graduate students. You cannot serve two masters effectively especially with limited resources which is always the case at HBCUs.
Because of the deficiencies that many African Americans come to college with, we must first get them through the bachelors degree. HBCUs have shown that they do that better than the majority institutions. After getting a good foundation at an HBCU this person can now go anywhere. If they choose to stay and go to graduate school at FAMU good, if not they can go elsewhere.
To offer PHDs you need to have graduate faculty who conduct meaningful research. Unfortunately, only a few of FAMU faculty conduct research that is grantable and that can support graduate students. In order for FAMU to be successful it needs to hire faculty who understand that they must do research and obtain grants. If you do not have the money to pay for a student's graduate education and to offer a lviing stipend, which most schools offer, who will go to FAMU graduate programs?
I am graduate of FAMU, PhD in Pharmaceutical Sciences. Fortunately FAMU had grant dollars to pay my tuition and offer a decent living stipend. However, all majors do not have this perk. If I have to choose struggling and paying for my own PhD (which you should never have to do) or go to a school that can provide funding, guess what I am going to do?
Furthermore, you have to have resources to fund graduate education. In the sciences you need a lot of equipment and infrastructure (special freezers, magnetic spectroscopy, animals and special facilities and personnel to handle them). All of this adds to the bottom line and it is easier to concentrate many of these programs at one school where departments can share equipment as opposed to trying to purchase this equipment for every school.
To continue this discussion of resources, the state of DE does not have a medical school. They rely on PA to educate its citizens because they are a small state and realized their needs could be better met by partnering with medical schools in Philadelphia.
Lastly, when you think back to the SBI 8, I supported the termination of these individuals. I am sure they were all nice people, but when you have a faculty line you need to do what faculty are supposed to do--teach, research, publish and committee work. Although they were on non-tenure lines which allowed them not to do these things, in the long run they were hurting the university because there contributions were limited--they could not help out and teach the core classes of accounting and marketing because they did not have the credentials, they were not doing any research and therefore were not bringing in any grant dollars. If I had to choose between a faculty member who can teach professional development, teach accounting and can publish and bring a degree of notoriety to our programs vs a person who can only teach professional development, guess who I am going to choose?
We want all of these things for FAMU but no one is providing resources. Just like a medical school--there are no publically funded medical schools at hbcus. They are all private or quasi-private (in the case of Howard that receives federal dollars). Medical schools are very costly to operate and the medical schools that are flourishing in this country or doing so because of donors and grant dollars. Neither of which FAMU gets much of. In order to have a medical school, you need to be able to raise MILLIONS OF DOLLARS annually to keep operations afloat. You NEED Researcher who are bringing in multi-year million dollar grants not $10,000 grants. You need faculty who are widely published and respected by their peers are fellows of their various academies.
It is nice to dream, but the reality is FAMUans have not demonstrated that they will step up to that level. We can bearly get $1M annually from our alumni, let alone the millions we need to sustain quality programs.
In conclusion, FAMU should continue to focus on undergraduate education with some graduate programs offered that meet critical needs for the minority community.
Disregard my various typos; did not take time to proofread.
ReplyDeleteI agree that FAMU should concentrate on undergraduate education and on graduate and professional programs that serve the African American community. I do not think it should aspire to be a comprehensive research and Ph.D. granting university. It should define its niche, as we have with journalism and pharmacy. One has to ask how FAMU could possibly compete with FSU in areas such as Physics, Music, English, Philosophy, etc. when it comes to Ph.D.'s. How could we afford strong faculty in these fields and how would we compete for graduate students?
ReplyDeleteFAMU should be an undergraduate only university if it continues to be an HBU.
ReplyDeleteThere is no place in a taxpayer-funded university system for a special university based on one ethnic group. That is a throwback to racist days long passed.
If FAMU want to continue to be an HBU at taxpayer expense then it should be undergraduate only. It graduates only 33% of it's students and like an earlier poster wrote, the standards are lax compared to other schools.
Graduate programs at FAMU are a waste. The primary goal of FAMU is NOT a "separate, but equal" university, which is what it's trying to be now. If FAMU exists at all, it should focus all effort and funds on graduating 100% of it's African American students - there should be generous financial aid for African American students, more than enough tutors and mentors to develop strong black students that can compete at the graduate level anywhere.
Race should be a zero factor - once a student graduates from FAMU. FAMU graduates should be just as good or better as undergraduates from anywhere. The distraction of graduate programs is folly and diverts attention to the primary job at hand - educating African American students.
If FAMU refuses this, then it should either be fully integrated and lose it's HBU status OR become a private university off the public taxpayer roll.
I agree. FAMU is coming to the end of its time of being a publicly funded enterprise. There just isn't much of a market or need for a black only institution.
ReplyDeleteThere was a time when such an institution met a legitimate public need.
The HBCU is going to go the way of the all-boys or all-girls schools.
In my humble opinion, FAMU needs to revisit its modern day mission or it will continue down a road of demise.
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