Former SGA President Larry Rivers wrote a brilliant op-ed piece for today's Tallahassee Democrat on the Engineering School issue. Rivers wrote, " Stripping Florida A&M University of financial oversight of the engineering college it jointly operates with Florida State University is counterproductive to the goal of seamless cooperation within the State University System.
It simply widens the racial and political fractures that have hindered Florida's public universities from functioning as a single, cohesive unit.
Giving FSU total oversight of the engineering college will cause more harm than good. FSU has expressed no intention to relinquish this control after one year."
Continue reading: Undermining the goal of integration
The FAMU student body is missing Larry River's kind of bold and principled leadership.
ReplyDeleteThis was indeed a very good op-ed piece. I also think that it better represents the sentiments of Rattlers around the country than the original editorial by the Famuan author.
ReplyDeleteCompare this guy to Agnew and Gillum.... See the difference.
ReplyDeleteLarry O. Rivers was a puppet for the administration when he was SGA president. How soon we forget the shennigans that ensued during the questionable balloting during his "win." We should NOT compare this guy, as 11:17 suggests, to Agnew and Gillum. We all run to the first person that says exactly what we want to hear and therein lies our loyalty. Let Agnew and Gillum stand where they stand, and leave the comparisons out of the equation. All of these students are young and idealistic. They each (as many of you will) looke back in a couple years and embrace the next person who tells you what you want to hear.
ReplyDeleteThis is who inspires Kyle to the voice against the Voices. Mr. Rivers put the STUDENT in Student Body President. Take a lesson, Agnew. Instead of walking around campus half naked while a rally is going on for your school, how about you take a page of River's book and.....well......CARE. We love Larry!!!!!! A TRUE RATTLER!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon 1:11; You're right; DON'T compare Agnew/Gillum to Rivers...there's NO COMPARISON. Larry Rivers is EVERYTHING an elected official is supposed to be.
ReplyDeleteLarry Rivers was no puppet of the administration, not the way he used to take Gainous and Corbin to task while he was SGA President/Trustee. Rivers took Corbin's evil ass on single handily and won!!!!
ReplyDeleteGive it up, get off the grown folks blog. You run.
ReplyDeleteLarry Rivers was appointed by the administration as SGA president. It is doubtful that he would have won amongst his peers. With that being said, he was an alright president. He wasn't outstanding, but he wasn't horrible either. He was a good student and that should be what he is remembered for.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with other posters. The SGA president is inconsequential to the "GROWN" issues. Let's stay on topic and let the students be students.
You weren't even a student yet.
ReplyDeleteLook at what is in store for FAMU Way. The ciy plans to connect it to Jackson Bluff practically. Their inramural feilds have moved near the E-school. They are narrowing Gaines and now plotting to add a Wal_Mart. (You know the backwards part is inherent)Small businesses, beware.
ReplyDeleteAll of these groups on campus have themed events that herald a "take over" or sorts. We have to get the students to know what their true roles are here at A&M. You 'd likely be shocked at the sheer ignorance of these issues. Let alone how they/we play a major role.
ReplyDelete"No excuse is acceptable. No effort is adequate until effective."
ReplyDeleteThat includes RACE Mr. Rivers.
Stop race baiting and blaming and be a part of the solution.
The legislature NEEDS to do something to protect tax payer's money.
Larry says, "Thus, FAMU's problem isn't a financial operation that is too big for it to handle; it is the unmet need for permanent and adequately prepared financial personnel."
Someone that is "adequately prepared" needs to handle the money until this "unmet need" is addressed.
Don't you think Larry?
What do you suggest?
As a FAMU alumni, i agree with everything he says, with the exceptin of the jim crow analogy. let's stop attributing such motives to FSU. this is not presenting FAMU in its most distinguished light, in my opinion. FSU is just looking out for its interest and we are looking out for ours. Take race out of it.
ReplyDeleteLarry Rivers was appointed by the administration as SGA president. It is doubtful that he would have won amongst his peers.
ReplyDeleteThat simply isn't true. Rivers won the 2003 student election in a blow-out.
In the final run-off, Rivers received 1322 votes to his opponent's 846 votes.
http://media.www.thefamuanonline.com/media/storage/paper319/news/2003/03/03/News/Election.Results-385932.shtml
The university administration simply upheld the final vote count against the SGA Electoral Commission and Supreme Court's efforts to disqualify Rivers.
I agree he is over the top in saying that this is anything like FSU taking over a law school that was shut down specifically after after separate but equal ended to give it to the larger university. There is no comparison here. FSU was given temporary control over the money only, and if FAMU can get our house back in order rather than pissing on each other we will be given control next year.
ReplyDeleteIf FAMU wants to have a serious discussion about integration, which was used in the title of his comments, then it needs to take a hard look at itself.
ReplyDeleteIF he wants to talk about Jim Crow, then FAMU needs to take a hard look at it's diversity. To have an honest conversation FAMU needs start with herself.
The E School will be divided. FSU is moving forward without FAMU.
>>>FSU was given temporary control over the money only, and if FAMU can get our house back in order rather than pissing on each other we will be given control next year.<<<
ReplyDeleteFSU has been trying to get full control of the E-School for decades. Fred Humphries faced off with Sandy D'Alemberte over this same issue in 2001 (even though FAMU was receiving clean operational audits from the state at that time).
This has nothing to do with who's the best financial manager and everything to do with POWER. FSU has always ampted up its efforts to snatch the E-School when FAMU's in its most vulnerable moments. They tried to do it when Humphries was on his way out the door, but he fought back and won.
Even Fred Gainous succeeded in warding off FSU's efforts to take the E-School during his watch. The FAMU BOT heeded his suggestion to pass a "no split" resolution back in 2003 just like it did today.
FSU is simply obsessed with dominating every aspect of the E-School's operation. FSU wants PERMANENT control of the budget and finances. T.K., Jim King, and the other FSU alums pushing for FSU to get financial authority over the E-School have not made ONE public statement saying they are willing to shift that control back to FAMU next year.
If the FSU gets financial control of the E-School it will have legislative precedent on its side next year. FAMUans cannot let that happen.
FAMU's come too far to be pushed back now.
>>>IF he wants to talk about Jim Crow, then FAMU needs to take a hard look at it's diversity.<<<
ReplyDeleteFAMU has never barred white students from applying. FAMU lacks white students because very few white students want to student at a historically black university.
FSU and the other majority white universities that blocked black applications until Brown v. Board should actively recruit blacks to (1) make up for all the generations they recieved black taxpayer dollars while simultaneously denying blacks admission; and (2) convince blacks they're sincere about providing a comfortable academic environment for people of all races.
Jim Crow was a system that benefited whites, not blacks. Lay off the revisionist history.
7:03 wrote:
ReplyDelete"FAMU has never barred white students from applying. FAMU lacks white students because very few white students want to student at a historically black university."
15 years ago, the faculty was around 30% white and the student body was around 15% white.
Now, the faculty is around 15% white and the student body is around 3% white. Why the huge drop? Did whites just stop wanting to come to FAMU. White universities are not allowed to use that argument when someone points out that they have few minorities.
Qualified whites are being rejected when they apply for jobs teaching at FAMU. Chairmen are being told not to make their faculties "too white." At FAMU, we practice racial discrimination in hiring. There. I've said it. Look around: You can see the results at every faculty meeting.
Students? As I understand it, a few programs like physical therapy bring in many of the white students. Most departments at FAMU are filled with black students. There is no integration here.
If we valued integration, we would recruit a whole bunch of qualified white students in preference to a whole bunch of unqualified black students FAMU is letting in now.
Reclaiming the Engineering School in the name of "integration" would be worth considering after FAMU integrates.
Whether FAMU should integrate is one of the discussions that needs to be held out in public, and not just assume everybody understands the issues and agrees on them.
Qualified whites are being rejected when they apply for jobs teaching at FAMU. Chairmen are being told not to make their faculties "too white." At FAMU, we practice racial discrimination in hiring. There. I've said it. Look around: You can see the results at every faculty meeting.
ReplyDeleteYou have no evidence to support this claim. All you have is an assumption that is a knee jerk response to the low numbers of white faculty at FAMU.
If you want to argue that potential white faculty members are being rejected on the basis of their color, then please provide proof.
Most departments at FAMU are filled with black students. There is no integration here.
If we valued integration, we would recruit a whole bunch of qualified white students in preference to a whole bunch of unqualified black students FAMU is letting in now.
The reason most FAMU departments don't have many white students is because white students simply chose not to attend FAMU.
Jim Crow gave whites total control over public universities. Whites were free to attend any university they wanted -- included FAMU.
Thus, the low numbers of whites is the result of a simple matter of choice on the part of whites.
The low numbers of blacks at institutions such as FSU and UF is not the result of simple matter of choice. Jim Crow left blacks in Florida with no public university choices other than FAMU.
Integration means reforming the corrupt power structures that were used by one race (whites) to control another race (blacks). Black universities such as FAMU never legally restricted anyone from enrollment or employment on the basis of race.
The problem of segregation existed at white universities, not the black universities. That means that white universities need to recruit more racial minorities.
Furthermore, FAMU does not need to use its limited resources to recruit more whites because whites are not underrepresented in Florida's public universities. Blacks are.
Whites have always had full, unrestricted access to higher education in Florida. Blacks have not.
FAMU needs to continue to focus on eliminating the gap in black underrepresentation in Florida's public universities.
Black people make up about 15 percent of the population in Florida and they represent 14 percent of the SUS student population. So the underrepresented statement is a bit misleading. Also there are 40 thousand black students enrolled currently in the SUS. To say that FAMU is the only opportunity for educating blacks is completely false. Yes I agree a conversation needs to happen on why FAMU refuses to recruit students of all color. FAMU should recruit all students of color!
ReplyDeleteANON 8:50,
ReplyDeleteI encourage you to write a letter to the editor. This discussion should be taking place now in the public realm.
See, we told ya'll that FL would never take OUR E school away because all of our forefathers were slaves and FL OWES US with all they have. If they try to take our E school like they took our law school WE WILL REVOLT! Wee do whatever we want because Jim Crow was ejected from Tallahassee and even my cousin says that the state can't mess with FAMU. They say don;t mess with Texas, well don't F*CK with FAMU!!!!!! I hope tha state goes bankrupt before they take ours back.
ReplyDeleteBlack people make up about 15 percent of the population in Florida and they represent 14 percent of the SUS student population.
ReplyDeleteFAMU's enrollment growth between 1985 and 2005 is the main reason why the percentage of blacks in the SUS has risen as quickly as it has. If FAMU begins recruiting more whites, then the overall percentage of blacks in the SUS will begin to fall again.
To say that FAMU is the only opportunity for educating blacks is completely false.
No one ever said that. That is a figment of your imagination.
Yes I agree a conversation needs to happen on why FAMU refuses to recruit students of all color. FAMU should recruit all students of color!
I know it's hard for you to grasp this concept, but I'll try to explain it to you again. Whites have NEVER been legally barred from attended any public university in Florida on the basis of race. Whites have NEVER been underrepresented in the SUS. Blacks are underrepresented.
Additionally, the Florida Legislature is not going to pay two universities in the same town to carry majority white student bodies. The more FAMU's student population begins to look like FSU's, the less reason there will be for FAMU's continued existence.
FAMU is the leading producer of blacks with baccalaureate degrees in America. UF, FSU, nor any other predominantly white university in Florida can do a better job than FAMU in that area.
No one is going to come forward with evidence of discrimination in hiring, because of the atmosphere of retribution at FAMU. Besides, the actions leading to that discrimination are agreements that are spoken among those doing the hiring. They're probably never written down.
ReplyDeleteWho gets interviewed? A fair number of whites seem to get interviewed. Who gets hired? Look around you at the next faculty meeting. Are white candidates being offered the positions, then turning them down. Perhaps. It would be interesting to know.
You'd expect the doubling of FAMU's enrollment to keep about the same percentage of faculty and students who were white. Instead, those percentages dropped by about half.
For years, I've heard white colleagues on this campus remark that they are told that they are "just guests" at a black university, and not full members of the faculty.
There's lot of things worth discussing in the way FAMU operates. We can be a lot better. We won't get that way by pretending that we don't have problems, or that our problems are caused by others, or that everybody agrees with everybody and there is no need to talk.
As a white faculty I can say that there is some racial undertones at FAMU, but it does not interfere with my job. I have been called the "token white" and stuff like that. A few faculty relish in pointing out that I am white. So what.
ReplyDeleteA large percentage of the black faculty are not American black, they are from all over the world and they think this talk about black/white issues are rather silly.
I was told by a colleague once that a foreign black who could barely speak English would be preferred to a white from the South.
Like the former poster said... you want to know what FAMU hiring policy is....look around you.
rattlers we will be fine. bet that up!
ReplyDeleteFuck Roberts!! Fuck Representative Lynne! Fuck TK Wetherell! Fuck the white girls at that historically girls school that wants to masquarade as a university. Go FAMU College of Engineering. Let's close down FSU and stuff their AAU ambitions up their tight white asses.
ReplyDeleteOffice Depot has joined the list of businesses that will not accept purchase orders from FAMU.
ReplyDeleteThat's what happens when you fall behind in paying for orders.
Does anybody know whether this is a short list or a long list? How big a situation is this?
Call Jessee and AL!!!!
ReplyDeleteOFFICE DEPOT ARE RACISTS.
ANON 2:48,
ReplyDeleteyou are wrong. if you look at the numbers black enrollment has continued to grow even when famu's numbers have declined. go to the www.flbog.org site and check it out.
blacks are underrepresented by 1 percent. again check out the site. blacks represent 13.7 percent of the student population and represent around 15 percent of florida. so you are right, but that number is very close to not being uderrepresented.
so remaining hysterically black you do, but as time and demographics change famu will be forced to change just like any other institution.
famu is publically funded and must do what is best for the public. in the future that may not be for the purpose of educating just blacks! if you disagree then stop taking public funds, move your campus and go private.
furthermore, with famu's open door policy i would imagine about 4000 of the 10000 enrolled at famu have no business being in a 4 year institution. so with that being said, famu without the need to artificially boost enrollment numbers for funding, would be roughly 6000 enrolled black students. now 6000 out of roughly 36,000 in the SUS, tells me that there are plenty of other options that black students are taking.
ReplyDeletei encourage professors to join in the integration discussion. write a leter to the editor to counter the borderline ridiculous commments being made by FAMU and it's supporters about race.
lets have a race discussion!
you are wrong. if you look at the numbers black enrollment has continued to grow even when famu's numbers have declined. go to the www.flbog.org site and check it out.
ReplyDeleteFAMU brought more than tripled its enrollment from 1985 to 2005. That's the biggest reason for the rapid increase in the overall percentage of blacks in the SUS.
When FAMU's enrollment began declining in 2005 (due to Castell Bryant's decision to shut down the recruitment program), the Board of Governors and others pointed to that as the reason for the overall decline in the number of blacks students in Florida's universities.
The state needs FAMU to continue to bring in the best and brightest black students. Without FAMU, the percentage of blacks in the SUS would be dismal.
i encourage professors to join in the integration discussion. write a leter to the editor to counter the borderline ridiculous commments being made by FAMU and it's supporters about race.
You have no idea what integration is. Integration is about reversing the effects of Jim Crow, which was system created by whites to exploit blacks.
Whites were never legally barred from attended FAMU. They chose not to come because they preferred predominantly white institutions.
blacks are underrepresented by 1 percent. again check out the site. blacks represent 13.7 percent of the student population and represent around 15 percent of florida. so you are right, but that number is very close to not being uderrepresented.
And whites have never been underrepresented in the SUS. Whites have always had the option of attending any university they wanted. The reason there are few whites at FAMU is because whites have chosen to avoid the institution.
FAMU has never had any policy that restricted admissions on the basis of race. The universities that practiced racial discrimination in admissions are the ones that need to work on recruiting the minorities they previously kept out.
'One Florida' still debated: Six years ago, Gov. Jeb Bush pushed through a controversial end to racial preferences in higher education
ReplyDeleteGary Fineout, The Miami Herald
December 17, 2006 Sunday
Dec. 17--Just 15 months into his job as governor, Jeb Bush was confronted with an angry crowd of 11,000 people who came to Tallahassee.
The signs they carried that day in March 2000 summed up their hostility: "Pharaoh Bush -- Let My People Go," read the sign of one protester. "Jeb Crow," read several others.
Bush sparked the largest ever protest in Tallahassee history with his efforts to dismantle the state's affirmative action programs in both university admissions and state spending.
Bush's One Florida plan required universities to end the use of race as a criteria in admissions, replacing it with the Talented 2 program, which guaranteed a spot at a state university to those graduating in the top 20 percent of their class. Bush also pushed to spend more on college-prep courses and practice college exams to prepare more students for college.
Six years after its adoption, Bush and his critics remain divided over its impact. Unlike other states forced to scrap affirmative action, Florida has not suffered a steep decline in minority enrollment, seeing instead a slight increase in raw numbers.
Bush said this is proof that One Florida has "worked."
"It hasn't created the unbelievable projections of incredible decline," he said.
Bush also defends the elimination of racial preferences as the "morally right position."
"We don't have one low criteria for one race at the expense at another; that has gone away," said Bush.
But as enrollment has surged overall at the state's 11 universities, the percentage of black students has dropped from 14.4 percent during the first year of One Florida to 13.8 percent this fall.
"We need to stop listening to political rhetoric," said Adora Obi Nweze, the Florida state president of the NAACP who participated in the March 2000 march led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson. "Our stats are telling us something completely different. Every argument we had then still holds."
Bush drew up his One Florida proposal as a way to counter efforts by affirmative action foes to push for a constitutional amendment -- an effort Bush feared would spark a fierce political battle in Florida at the same time his brother was seeking the presidency.
Bush got a battle anyway. To protest his actions, two black politicians -- Kendrick Meek, at the time a state senator, and Rep. Tony Hill -- staged an impromptu sit-in in Lt. Gov. Frank Brogan's office that exposed the angry side of Bush.
Bush was caught on videotape saying: "Your life's gonna be a living hell. Kick their asses out." Bush said he was referring to reporters who had camped out in Brogan's office with the two lawmakers, but the battle over One Florida provided the spark for a mobilization of black voters who turned out in the 2000 election to vote against then-Texas Gov. George Bush.
Six years later, Bush does not apologize for One Florida, but says he did not do enough to defend his policy and instead turned to other initiatives while anger was still bubbling up. He said he and his staff did not do enough to counter arguments against it.
"I regret that the One Florida initiative, which has yielded a positive result over the long haul, was viewed in a one dimensional political way that opened up wounds," said Bush. "We didn't continue to work it to make sure that people saw the benefits."
It's hard to have an intelligent discussion in post-card sized comments, but that's what we are trying to do.
ReplyDeleteThe mission of FAMU and its place in the state university system needs to be clarified. We at FAMU can't just invent that mission by rewriting the mission statement from time to time, then demanding money to carry it out.
In particular, the community colleges have moved into some of the areas FAMU used to claim as its mission -- serving the under-served, providing remediation for the under-prepared, and increasingly providing 4-year degrees on campuses close to just about every major city in Florida.
FAMU needs to watch its back, or it's reasons for existence could be quietly taken over by others, and done well, too.