As the saying goes, there are two sides to every story. Today, FSU Provost Larry Abele get to have his say, presumably in reponse to an Op-Ed written earlier this week for the Democrat by former FAMU SGA President Larry O. Rivers.Writing for the Democrat, Mr. Abele wrote, "the FAMU/FSU College of Engineering exists for one purpose: to serve all our engineering students regardless of their institution. Yet in the midst of all the political posturing and charged rhetoric, not a single person has focused on the well-being of these students, and reports from the college are not good."
"It is an outrage that students do not have access to the laboratory materials necessary for them to complete standard engineering exercises. Required gases have not been delivered on a timely basis. Students have engaged in virtual experiments for lack of materials. Some vendors will not accept purchase orders because of payment problems. It is difficult now to even purchase some scientific equipment," he continued.
Read more at: FSU View
Fix would do more harm than good
Yes, these folks applauded CastHell when hundreds of blacks had to stand in line to receive their paychecks.
ReplyDeleteNow Abele wants to yell foul because one White Male had to fly back to the US and stand in line and because students enrolled through FSU are crying about the horrible state of the facilities.
Well we have been complaining about the degradation of FAMU since the arrival of Fred Gainous and Castell Bryant while white folks applauded their efforts and have called them a breathe of fresh air.
Well the stinch is now floating across the tracks.
You can get behind us (and whine) or join us in running this "Mean, Arrogant, Ruthless and Vicious Dictator" out of Tallahassee for good.
We as alumni and supporters of FAMU only what the best and the best is not what CastHell/Lowe have offered.
Abele's complaints about the E-School being under-funded are not FAMU's fault. The Florida Legislature funds the E-School. All FAMU does is develop a budget based on the money that the legislature appropriates.
ReplyDeleteAbele's a week too late anyway and FSU supporters are infuriated. He's taking a beating in warchant.com.
T.K. and Abele thought that they could get away with their attempted takeover quietly because of Castell's passivity. They didn't count on FAMUans rising up and launching a massive lobbying campaign against their coup.
Castell does not speak for FAMU. We hate her. She's a sell-out and a traitor. FSU should never make the mistake of believing that she accurately represents the feelings of the FAMU community.
Abele's letter would have been useful a week and might have helped explain what was going on behind the scenes. That this comes so late shows the incompetence in the administration at FSU. Why didn't he publish it then? Perhaps because FSU doesn't really want control of the engineering school because the problem is not FAMU, but is that the legislature has underfunded the school. I don't know whether Abele can be trusted, as he like TK Wetherell would steal the COPE from FAMU if given a chance, but let's just assume that his allegations are correct. (The6y probably aren't.) The solution is for the legislature to INCREASE funding, not to take the COE away from FAMU. FAMU has managed the COE just fine and I have heard nothing from Abele until now.
ReplyDeleteThe FSU alumns I know find their administration woefully incompetent, inbred to an astonishing degree, and unable to compete with the big boys. UF surpassed them long ago as the flagship, and FSU cannot even keep its own coalition together in the legislature. Well, idiots like TK and Abele had better wait until we have Ammons in town. He will blow them away! FAMU's unbdergraduate and graduate programs will blow FSU away!!!!
I found that this story has a mixed message.
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, FAMU's legislative supporters and alumni defeated an FSU-led effort to strip of control of the COE. A great Rattler victory!
On the other hand, this paragraph disturbs me:
Under an amendment from Lynn that senators passed Wednesday, FAMU will undergo an intense forensic audit, provide quarterly progress reports and an annual report on its finances and track recruiting and retention with yearly reports.
If FAMU does not show improvements by the start of the 2008 session, the board that oversees Florida's public universities would recommend "any necessary fiscal emergency actions" to "protect the reputation of the university and students."
For several years now, FAMU has met none of the expectations, timelines, benchmarks, etc. It is going to take Ammmons more than 8 months to hire new administrators to solve FAMU's fiscal problems. Are we setting up our new president for failure?
All I can say is that James Ammons must really, really, really LOVE his university to want to even set one toe on the campus as its 10th president. My hat's off to you, my man. You're one helluva man, and I do wish you all the best.
ReplyDeleteI wonder whether he has second thoughts. I sure as hell wouldn't want his job, but it's too late now, brother!!!
ReplyDeleteLet me ask our new president to fire everyone at FAMU law school and start from scratch. I applied to the law school, thinking I might want to attend FAMU law. The administration's communications with potential students contain little or no interesting or relevant information that could positively influence my decision to attend the law school. The interim dean is not sending very positive signals about the law school's direction or the quality of the education I would receive if I decided to attend it. In fact, the with newly admitted students are littered with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and factual mistakes. The web site for the law school is a joke. By visiting the web site, I cannot even figure out who teaches on the law faculty. I had my sights set on FAMU's law school, but they are incapable of recruiting studentss. I really wish FAMU would get it together and wish it the best. However, I have made a decision to attend FSU law school.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a problem with the law school, you should contact Ammons. Do not post problems here or air our dirty laundry in public. FSU is spying on this board. They are looking for weakness in the Rattler Nation. I respect your decision to attend FSU rather than FAMU but please don't give them any ammunition to work with. We need to stand united these days!!!
ReplyDeleteI disagree everything should be air out right now while all this is going on and our supporters are here to protect us. When Ammons comes to power we don’t need to leave anything behind that they can use against him. In a lot of ways I'm happy this mess finally came out cause now we actually get some work done and people know they can't mess around no more. We are a Black University so by default it’s going to be treated differently. Too many people at FAM been too complacent and have let questionable things slide for far too long. Well this experience has been an eye opener for us all hasn't it? It times the stakeholders and FAMU supporters to start policing this school themselves and hold people accountable instead of letting stuff go and hope it works itself out. We also know most definitely who are some of the enemies of FAMU and which politicians we need to make sure don’t get elected next time around. FAMU has to be 10 times better than the next school in this state to be acknowledged and safe, no its not fair but it’s or reality unfortunately .
ReplyDeleteThe laws school never had a good start to begin with it was started right when this leadership void began at FAMU. Ammons is coming so the E School and Law School should be ok. I don’t think Law school is in no immediate danger now since FSU was smacked down. That should keep a certain university in Orlando from trying anything for right now.
Yeah, I would have to see UCF try to steal the law school. We really need Ammons to get to Tallahassee and to maken some of those big fat administrator heads roll. Or to kick some big black ass. However you want to say it, it is time for change.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but have have to totally disagree. Ucf does not have barely any kind of power to even think about taking our law school. Eventhough FAMU have been looked on by the state as the underacheived university, which i highly disagree with, Ucf is the university with no recognitions and just admit anybody, it'll be a disaster for them to even cross FAMU, trust me we are on a higher level then ucf.
ReplyDeleteThe St. Pete Times' Gradebook has posted a document that Castell signed with T.K. regarding the E-School.
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.tampabay.com/schools/florida_am/index.html
Let's start posting all of that stuff that is going on at FSU. I know a lot of black faculty, students, and staff at FSU who endure racism over there everyday.
ReplyDeleteThey are very condescending and make the students feel unwanted -- all but some of the athletes.
It is not the utopia they try to pretend it is. They just have the Dixiecrat on their side.
When you learn something, please share.
There are some extremely racist and prejudiced individuals that walk the halls of FSU campus. Its sad. Its very funny how their provost wants to talk now. FSU ya'll some funny ass folks.
ReplyDeleteWhat is FAMU doing with a law school in ORLANDO? Especially one that is so close to another perfectly good state university that could be running it with much less trouble?
ReplyDeleteFAMU is in danger of being spread too thin. It's hard enough to run our share of the engineering school, a mile away.
We need to be intensely realistic about what we can and cannot handle. FAMU is simply not staffed or funded to do everything. We need to do what we do best, and to keep our eye on what makes us good.
It's just possible that keeping half of an engineering school isn't what we do best. Or even keeping a law school 250 miles away.
It's time to think these things through.
I agree. We have lost focus on our tradition, which is bring one of the greatest institutions in the U.S. for the production of highly educated black men and women. Our undergraduates go on to Harvard, Yale, etc. If our graduate programs cannot be top notch, we should give them up. So far, our law school is a disaster and the engineering college is an embarassment. FSU has 80% of the students yet they wany us to bear 100% of the responsibility. It is a fundamentally unfair arrangement and it works to the disadvantage of the average FAMU student.
ReplyDeleteBe careful before you say the law school is a disaster. Like all new institutions we have some pros and cons. You seem to know so much about the law school. What suggestions for improvment can you offer?
ReplyDeleteWhy is the law school a disaster? a. It lacks a permanent dean and no one good is applying. b. It has failed to get accredidation at the same pace at FIU. c. Its bar passage is subpar. d. It is having a problem recruiting students. e. Its faculty is subpar. f. It administration cannot even put together a web site to provide basic information on its problems that is comparable to other law schools. g. It was embroiled in a national scandal about corruption by a major donor.
ReplyDeleteThe positive, I suppose, is that it enrolls a large number of black students, more than any other law school in Florida. But there is more bad news thnan good news about it right now.
4:41--In response to your comment regarding UCF's admittance policy, I have to add that as of late, our university has been admitting a number of students who are very ill-prepared for collegiate work. I know, because I teach quite a few. But I do have to say, however, that if the students have a strong desire to learn and engage the collegiate level work that will be required of them to receive a degree, then I really don't have a problem with anyone coming. Many of us, however, have to extend an inordinate amount of remedial time with the students who are not fully prepared and sometimes this tends to be a major problem.
ReplyDelete10:20-- what is your proof that the E-School is an "embarrassment"? Is it a provable fact, or are you going by what is in the news reports? I've not seen or read anything that would suggest that the school is "an embarrassment." What I have read, however, is that the school, along with the university, is in a financial quagmire. But a quagmire for one entity is not necessarily an embarrassment for the other. Do you have hard facts that support the statement that the E-School is in fact an "embarrassment"?
ReplyDeleteNot one student would dare say the faculty are subpar. The entire 1st year class just gave awards and gift baskets to professors. You sound like a disgruntled person who may be having some trouble getting a job.
ReplyDeletewhat is your proof that the E-School is an "embarrassment"? Is it a provable fact, or are you going by what is in the news reports?
ReplyDeleteIt is a provable fact and some faculty are working to document it. I think that they would like to start a blog and begin naming names.
It's an embarassment in two ways. First, operationally, it runs, as faculty members have put it (see the story in Sunday's Tallahassee Democrat), worse than a "Greyhound bus station." The question is not what students, polled as they are studying for finals, think. As you know, most FAMU students polled on campus (not at your protest rallys) think things on campus are fine. The question is whether the running of the school is benefitting students as much as it could. The evidence is clear that students in Tallahassee are not being offered an engineering education program that ranks among the top 100 universities nationally, or even among the top 1/2 of Florida universities. That is problematic, in my view, and far undersells both FAMU and FSU.
Second, it is an embarassment in terms of research funding. This probably has more implication for FSU than FAMU, but since FSU pays 2/3 of the faculty and have 80% of the students it is a very fair concern to raise. Respectable national engineering colleges bring in 5 to 10 TIMES as much research funding as the FAMU/FSU College of Engineering does. The overhead from research funding substantially benefits an institution on building quality and expansion and maintenance, as well as on attracting high quality faculty and graduate students. Most FDAMU/FSU COE faculty have not applied for a grant in the past year. That is unacceptable, yet know one calls them on it because there are two driver to the car, so to speak. FSU cannot properly manage and maintain quality control for a faculty that does not have clear expectations to engage in research and to bring in federal grant money. While there are some stars on the faculty, on average the performance of COE faculty is inconcistent with the performance expectations for other colleges and departments on FSU's campus. I understand that FSU might want to change that.
4/15/2007 12:11 PM wrote:
ReplyDeleteIt's an embarassment in two ways. First, operationally, it runs, as faculty members have put it (see the story in Sunday's Tallahassee Democrat), worse than a "Greyhound bus station."
Well the faculty named in the Tallahassee Democrats are hypocrites at best. These are FSU appointees who run to FAMU to get research funding through Minority set aside programs (Army and others) and then turn around to insult FAMU. I am a student at the E-School and I can tell you the facilities issues we see at the college, I have seen worst conditions at the FSU campus.
Yes, there are issues but not to the extent Abele and the quoted faculty (hypocrites) are saying. SHAME ON THEM.
BTW, as of now the top administrators at the college are mostly FSU appointees. Most started rejoicing when the issue of moving budget to FSU control was brought up. Executive Council cosists of Dean-FSU, Assoc. Dean - FAMU and 5-Chairs (4-FSU and 1-FAMU).
Well the faculty named in the Tallahassee Democrats are hypocrites at best. These are FSU appointees who run to FAMU to get research funding through Minority set aside programs (Army and others) and then turn around to insult FAMU.
ReplyDeleteThis is completely false. Please check your facts before making riduclous allegations. Sure there are some faculty who receive minority set asides, and even without any affiliation with FAMU that would be the case, especially for FSU's many diversity faculty who are Indian, Hispance, and, yes, Black. And yes, there are Black faculty associated with FSU who are fed up with the FAMU replationship too!! The two faculty quoted in the Tallahassee Democrat story have a solid record of merit based research funding, independent of FAMU.
Professor Locke, for example, has a solid record of merit funding, includinf NSF and NIH funding. Since 2002, he had brought in $700k in external grant funding. This is not minority "set aside" funding through FAMU.
Professor Alvi has secured more than $1 million in external funding since 2002. This is funding that was awarded on the merits and none of this is minority "set aside" money through FAMU.
Thew factual inaccuracies that folks are spreading to sustain FAMU's control of the operational budget, regardless of mismanagement and consistently subpar performance, are absolutely astonishing. They show that this debate has little basis in the facts or reality, and has everything to do with racial politics.
I'm sorry, but the time is here to put the facts out there and to seriously debate the merits of continuing with this dysfunctional relationship. If that means naming names, let's do so. I think that the FSU folks need to get the facts out there. Which faculty are receiving funding ON THE MERITS and which institution are the affiliated with? Why should these faculty continue to have any relationship with FAMU, if iot is not committed to maintaining infrastructure in a way that will facilitate future grant funding for MERIT-BASED research projects?
...as of now the top administrators at the college are mostly FSU appointees. Most started rejoicing when the issue of moving budget to FSU control was brought up. Executive Council cosists of Dean-FSU, Assoc. Dean - FAMU and 5-Chairs (4-FSU and 1-FAMU).
ReplyDeleteYes, and can ANY dean effectively manage a college if that dean lacks control over basic budget items? Does anyone who has worked in university administration really think that such an arrangement can work? Has it EVER worked ANYWHERE? The answer,. of course, is no, even if Senator Lawson and others wish to stick their head in the sand and pretend that there is no problem. That, my friend, is the flaw with having a hidden budget for the COE controlled by FAMU's administration.
To the person who said this on 4/12: "Ucf is the university with no recognitions and just admit anybody, it'll be a disaster for them to even cross FAMU, trust me we are on a higher level then ucf. "
ReplyDeleteGet your facts straight. UCF has become highly selective. Look at the median SAT, ACT, and GPA's for UCF compared to FAMU. UCF -- SAT 1200, ACT 26, GPA 3.68 and FAMU -- SAT 920, ACT 19, GPA 3.0!
HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU EVEN THINK UCF "ADMITS ANYBODY"? FAMU's standards are a JOKE compared to UCF's!!!!!
Sources: http://www.admissions.sdes.ucf.edu/about.asp?FirstSub=freshprof
www.blackexcel.org/10best.htm
http://encarta.msn.com/colleges_701829737/Florida_A_M_University.html
With a total enrollment of 46,500 and the additon of a brand new Medical School for 2009, UCF is a force in central Florida to be reckoned with. I am not saying that they could easily swoop up and "steal" the law school like FSU did back then, but don't kid yourself into thinking that UCF is weak on any level.
Please stop being so ignorant and get your snout outta that bag of pork rinds and learn something by reading a text book instead of the next month's issue of JET.
I think that we ought to think about what is going to help us in the long run. When a patient has been shot in the leg you don't kill them off, you just cut off the leg. Let's get rid of our schools with bad reps and problems and let the state handle the mess. The E school and this dumb ass law school can suck a bullet. Let the taxpayers bail them out and give them to FSU or someone else. Let's focus on main campus problems and getting the black man a scholarship. Why waste money on these white students at the E school and law school, they don't deserve any state funds anyhow. Their families got the benefit of my ancestors work so there should be no helping a white kid over a black kid with state money. We need to fix our school and help our football team.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4/15/2007 8:00 PM wrote:
ReplyDeleteYes, and can ANY dean effectively manage a college if that dean lacks control over basic budget items? Does anyone who has worked in university administration really think that such an arrangement can work?
Hay man stop misinformation.
Just like any other dean the engineering dean has control with the E-School budget. He is the one who sets it and forward it to the university system. He is the one who decides which lines to fill etc, etc. Remember his pay check and salary raises comes from FSU. As a result what ever he may say must line with the thoughts of his boss, read the provost at FSU.
Hay man stop misinformation.
ReplyDeleteJust like any other dean the engineering dean has control with the E-School budget. He is the one who sets it and forward it to the university system. He is the one who decides which lines to fill etc, etc. Remember his pay check and salary raises comes from FSU. As a result what ever he may say must line with the thoughts of his boss, read the provost at FSU.
If you are right, if FSU controls the Dean then FSU controls the budget, even if the legislature nominally give it to FAMU. Or am I missing something? Or is FSU claiming that FAMU is spending the budget on something other than engineering?
FSU already controls the budget. The legislative maneuvering last week was but a hollow victory for FAMU, which must realize that it has in effect already lost the COE. The faculty are all from FSU, save a few who are about to retire. The vast majority of students are from FSU. And the administration is predominantly FSU. FSU controls the COE. Regardless of the fact that the legislature has put the budget in FAMU's hands, accredidation standards for the DCOE will require FAMU to turn it over to the FSU-controlled deans. What Al Lawson needs to do is sponsor legislation that a) requires the dean to rotate between FSU and FAMU and b) limits FSU to no more than 1/2 of the students and faculty at the COE.
ReplyDelete