Attorneys for four of five undergraduate Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity members Friday filed motions asking the judge to dismiss all charges of hazing.
One of the motions was filed on behalf of Marcus Hughes and was based on the victim "inability to identify the source of injury" and "lack of serious bodily injury," said defense attorney Chuck Hobbs (son of Castell's best buddy Vivian Hobbs).
Read the full story here: Drop Hazing Charges
So now, I guess that boy's ass just got whipped all by itself?? His eardrum just split the fukk up all on its own?? He got all stitched up because he likes the thought of being sew up like a piece of cloth?? Give me a mfing break here. "No proof of injury"?? An "inability to identify the source"?? When your ass is being beat like a piece of meat, what you're doing is trying to mentally concentrate on not fukking going to seventh heaven! Now, the so-called "victim" must take responsibility for his part, also. Why would you want to belong to an organization so badly that you'd let five or six mfs whipped your ass until the next morning. "Oh, I want to be in this piece of crap fraternity until I'm gone let these mfers beat me like I stole something." Yeah, right. He was a crazy mfer to stand there (or stoop or squat or WTF ever) and let a bunch of mfers whip his ass in the first damn place. Now, Chuck Hobbs' defense of this shit is to say, the boy didn't see the mfers who was paddling his ass?? Yeah, right. Give me a mfing break.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the statement police took from the victim in Atlanta, he said that he was blindfolded. All Chuck Hobbs is doing is using his statement against him.
ReplyDeleteIf the pledgees were blindfolded and hit from behind how on God's green Earth can they identify who hit them? Its like the chick in the Duke Rape case, she may have been attacked, but has she picked out the right 3 attackers when there was forty something guys there? I'm glad Chuck Hobbs is questioning this because I been wondering how on Earth he can identify folks through a blindfold too. Like OJ looking for the real killers, they need to be looking for the real Hazers...
ReplyDeleteThey make a good point about Jone's inability to point out who was really hitting him being that he was blind-folded. But it's absurd to argue the seriousness of his injuries.
ReplyDeleteThey make a good point about Jone's inability to point out who was really hitting him being that he was blind-folded. But it's absurd to argue the seriousness of his injuries.
ReplyDeleteI think it is absolutely appropriate to contend the extent of his injuries because of the civil ramifications towards the university and fraternity.
From my knowledge of the case, a point of contention was that this young man is poised to sue the university and Kappa based on the aftermath...i.e., him losing his scholarship et al
My understanding is that he attended classes a week following the reported incident.
I don't think that any of this is right and all told, a whole lot of black young men lose out in this case and no one wins.
I have my university in mind when I say the hazers as well as this young man put our school in harm's way with this behavior and both parties need to be sanctioned for their wanton disrespect of university rules.
I wish this all would just go away, the Kappa's and this young man's 15 minutes are way up.
I'm not Greek, but generations of idiots have allowed themselves to be hazed, branded, and degraded in order to belong to a fraternity/sorority. Our ancestors spent years trying to get away from the physical and psychological abuse they were forced to edure as slaves, sharecroppers, and second-class citizens, and our men and women find wasy to do it to each other through these barbaric "rituals". Our foreparents must be rolling in their graves. Pledge classes should be out in the open instead of underground...maybe fewer incidents hazing incidents would occur.
ReplyDeleteHey, potty mouth--
ReplyDeleteLast time I checked, the standard is innocent until proven guilty. I want to know what the doctor has to say about this cat's injuries. Let's see--all these cats are in a room, dude is wearing a blindfold, but these five, and only these five, did it. If the guy didn't see who hit him, then why is he singling out these five Kappas?
anonymous 4:41 PM
ReplyDeleteIn reading your comment I guess one could say that you are calling every black man and woman belonging to a fraternity or sororities idiots. Granted this is a serious, but to call our forefathers idiots is beyond me. So in essense anyone belonging to a fraternal organization, be it Mason, Eastern Star, Shriner, ect. is an idiot in your book.
Is Chuck Hobbs a Kappa? Also, is he related to Vivian Hobbs?
ReplyDeleteMany of you sound as if no one should be held accountable because the ass-whippers were frat men. Now, if this kid were your son or brother, I do believe that you all would be singing a different tune. Many of you, especially Blogger #5, and his 15 minutes of fame comment, sound very young and very silly. If it were your ass, you wouldn't be so damn smug. I hope the family sues like there's no tomorrow. As one Blogger said, the victim is not all blameless in this incident. He should not have let these people whip his ass like that in the first place, so that he could "belong" to something. What about owing yourself? That's belonging, right there.
ReplyDeletechuck hobss is vivan hobbs' son. vivian hobbs, as we all know, is castell's best friend.
ReplyDeleteChuck Hobbs is a Kappa, but he graduated from Morehouse.
ReplyDeleteI understand that everyone should be considered "innocent" until proven guilty, but if I was a friend or brother of Attorney Hobbs, I would surely ask him why he would want to get involved in this kind of case.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, his ties with the University President are too close (son of the President's best friend). Come on now. And should we believe that he is holding EVERYTHING IN CONFIDENCE that these young men are saying to him, and somehow this is not getting back to the President?
Secondly, even though this may not be a true conflict of interest, surely the President would NOT want Mr. Jones' attorney(s) to have any more ammunition to use against the University. If I was Mr. Jones' attorney, I would fight even more against the University.
And what if these 5 young men were not the ones who actually hit Mr. Jones? Surely, law enforcement agencies have spoken with each of them... and if they were there, and they are lying, or they are hiding something, they can still be charged with conspiracy? withholding evidence? obstructing justice? Well, if they are suspects, they may not be charged with the obstruction of justice, but EVERY ONE, AND I DO MEAN EVERY ONE of the other Kappas who are aware of the beatings could be charged.
And even if these 5 young men get off on their charges, the fraternity and the University are still in BIG TROUBLE!
Back to Attorney Hobbs... If my (surrogate) auntie was the University President, I would not even want to be considered a part of this case. It appears that even though he may be defending these men, his actions may indicate that he does not support the President's philosophy of ZERO TOLERANCE FOR HAZING.
Chucky, you may want to reconsider this case. Bet you Parks and Crumps, Harold or Skip would not have taken it.
Doesn't the Student Fang say that the hazer and the person that allows him/herself to be hazed are just as responsible? I thought this was part of the Zero Tolerance for Hazing.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon @ 9/10/2006 12:03 PM
ReplyDeleteRIGHT ON! Preach brother/sister!
The Chronicle of Higher Ed's Sept. 8th edition contains the advertisement for the FAMU presidency: Section C, pg. 78. It doesn't list March 7th anywhere as the date for the new hire, but it does list the December 2006 date for packages to be received. Check it out.
ReplyDeleteI am a former member of the Alpha Xi chapter.
ReplyDeleteI qualify this because I want to say that whomever is guilty should be charged and prosecuted.
However, I think that it is sickening that the folks in and outside of this forum, who don't know facts, are convicting folks before the investigation or trial has begun or finished.
Why is there a rush to judgement. If all 5 of them are guilty, fine, let them suffer the consequences.
There is a lot more to this story than most of you know and before intellegent people rush to judgement they wait for the facts to be disclosed.
Apparently someone hazed those kids and everyone involved needs to be dealt with.
Incidentally, Chuck is an attorney and he will be fine.
The one thing clear is that the father is looking to sue regardless of who is involved and who is guilty so I doubt the fact of who is representing the alleged guilty parties is gonna make a difference.
The tragedy in this whole instance is that black men have negatively had their lives impacted
Incidentally, I predict many more hazing cases in other organizations will come to light...ie the band et al.
Since the university is settling lawsuits, it looks like a line is forming for payouts.
Please don't believe for one minute that the Kappas are the only guilty party. There is a culture that permits hazing on the hill and condones it. Until you address that culture, you will have the problem
AMEN anonymous at 7:11 pm. The entire process needs to be looked at by the administration for all extracurricular activities.
ReplyDeleteFolks, contrary to what has been written thus far, there is DEFINITE cause to question both the seriousness of the alleged victim's injuries and the presumed guilt of the accusers well before their day in court.
ReplyDeleteIf you read the recent Tallahassee Democrat article, you will see that the judge will be reviewing 4 different motions to dismiss these charges before the trial begins. This is because:
1) The personal doctors for the alleged victim gave depositions two weeks ago that challenged the seriousness of there own patient's injuries. Contrary to the alleged victim (and really his money hungry dad) saying that he had a ruptured eardrum that would never allow 100% hearing again and that he was soaking in blood upon going to his doctor's office, the boy's OWN DOCTORS said UNDER OATH that upon testing his hearing, he had 100% and normal hearing with NO ruptured eardrum AND that there was no tearing of the skin or bleeding upon the initial review of his buttocks.
2) The statute that discusses hazing requires two conditions to be met, some form of reckless physical hazing AND a serious bodily injury or death that results from the hazing. Based on the boy's own doctors' statements, there is clearly no death AND no serious bodily injury. As a result, the charges that are pending are the WRONG CHARGES.
3) I have never seen a university (even Duke during the rape case) suspend and destroy the lives of its students based on allegations and before ALL of the facts had been reviewed. While everyone is focusing on the potential lawsuit of the money hungry dad of the alleged victim (see below), I would be concerned about the lawsuits that will come from the five guys who where suspended from FAMU (two of them within one week of getting their degrees) before anyone every confirmed this boy's alleged injuries (no proven to be exaggerated) and before a detailed investigation had taken place. These 5 guys were NEVER interviewed by the police and had a rushed and unsupported suspension from the university.
4) This guy's dad is clearly money hungry! He is a military guy who hazes his cadets for a living. Why is it that the father (not the son) has pushed this investigation? Why is it that the father reported this incident to the Tallahassee Democrat BEFORE he even notified the fraternity, the university, or the police? Why is it that the father retained Knowles and Randolph to pursue a civil lawsuit at the same time that we went to the media? Why is it that the family's OWN doctors have said under oath that the injuries were exaggerated and not real???
These five young black men (all honor students who had held elected positions on campus) deserve their day in court! Let me be the first to predict either a dismissed case OR a resounding NOT GUILTY. Then, we will all own these guys an apology and an IMMEDIATE chance to continue their education. Let's not be blinded by an attempt to quickly cash in by an overzealous daddy.
Point well-taken. The father is a Kappa, I find it strange that he didn't notify International Headquarters of this incident. Why the Newspaper first? I am a Kappa, and I do know if this were my son my first call would be to International Headquarters.
ReplyDeleteYet, another sad commentary in the history of FAMU.
ReplyDeleteYes, there probably was an incident of hazing, however, for this administration to try and use this incident to discredit the appointment of a board member, and pronounce guilty the students involved before a trial is absured.
This is the climate that is prevalent among this administration to discredit at all costs. Just look at the accusations she leveled at Billy Joe, which were not substantiated by the NCAA is vitually dismissed.
He is a military guy who hazes his cadets for a living.
ReplyDeleteOne of the most ridiculous comparisons ever conceived is a comparison of frat initiations and military basic training.
In the former, people wishing to join a volunteer social organization are subject to rituals and rites of passage that may or may not include physical abuse. At the end of the pledge period, they are accepted as members. By law, the physical abuse is illegal.
In the latter, people have joined the military to defend the nation in exchange for a salary. They may be called upon to kill other people or put themselves in a position to be killed, but in any event, must follow orders according to the chain of command. They are trained in a manner so that orders will be followed without question (with a due process to procecute improper orders.) At the end of basic training, they are ready to be deployed in battle.
Military "hazing," if you want to call it that, is about weeding out potential soldiers who will not be able to respond in the heat of the battle, thereby endangering the lives of their fellow soldiers.
Frats take themselves way too seriously if they compare themselves to military training.
It is really too bad all the way around. Six young black men set themselves back in the very place they are supposed to be setting themselves up to move forward.
Well, let me put it this way.
ReplyDeleteHe was a Kappa notorious for hazing and an advocate for his son "gettin made right"
Brother Brown must have gotten rejected from a frat...or maybe he is an Iota LOL!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAll this psychoanalysis of one black man's opinion is just plain funny. A frat-reject Armstrong Williams wannabe. Teehehehe!
ReplyDeleteNo, never tried to join a frat. GDI 'til the day...you know the rest.
When I first got to the Hill in the fall of '78, Kappas and Omegas were suspended for a year for some foolishness the prior spring. The Kappas managed to stay on the yard the rest of my time there, but the Omegas were only on 1 out of my 4 years.
I witnessed the results of hazing, even harbored a scroller and a lamp on different occasions when a couple of friends of mine needed some "quiet time."
I let my father and brother, both Kappas, read the articles back in the spring when the story first broke. Both of them had the same first reaction: "I thought we weren't supposed to be pledging anymore: this is just stupid." Both of them were hazed in their time.
You have your right to your POV.
ReplyDeleteAs I learned in Dr. Clark's Cybernetics class.
...Always listen to the rantings of a fool, cause even a stopped clock is right two times a day
You wrote that as if that logic doesn't also apply to you.
ReplyDeleteAre we sure some of you all have a degree, because some of you don't make sense and some of you obviously can't read well.
ReplyDeleteHow could Hobbs (defense lawyer) be hired by the same university that accused the young men of hazing and kicked them out of school. Why would the accusers defend the accused? I think people on this site are so depressed, desperate, bored or ignorant that they have to make up things to satisfy their sick minds. Can we please act like adults- intelligent, educated adults. Has anyone thought to call Hobbs or the university to check on this, or even the five young men? No ... I didn't think so! I probably know more about what's going on at FAMU and with this case than any of you and the things you are discussing make no sense to the truth.
Well please speak up and enlighten the depressed, desperate, bored or ignorant Anonymous 9/13/2006 11:19 AM.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 9/09/2006 4:41 PM you are not Greek so to comment and do not know what all takes place during these "barbaric rituals". All Greek pledging activities are not "barbaric" and serve an integral purpose in Greek culture.
The ones who get themselves involved know exactly what they are getting involved in. Anyone who claims that they do not is obviously not being truthful. It is a right if passage that those CHOOSE to commit themselves to. I do not agree nor condone physical abuse for no apparent reason. But, it is a culture.
Our foreparents are not rolling in their graves because they had it worse. They condoned it then. If anything, they are expressing how much better that is gotten and applauding this being brought to the fore front and up from the underground. They are applauding that in this day, contrary to thier day, this behavior is not condoned. To keep it underground does not make way for change.
Just like Spike Lee made "Bamboozled" with the idea that the world needs to see the wrong doings of our society on TV, read in newspapers and discussed on the Rattler Nation Blog in order to make for change.
Until the culture is changed, there will continue to be stories like this played out in the court of public opinion as well as in public and private institutions of higher learning. Eventually, change will be made.